PASS IT ON WEBINAR – August 25, 2007
Reporting to RSA
JEREMY BUZZELL: . . . microphone to
make sure that
folks are able to hear me. Am I sounding okay?
Carolyn, did you have any other things that you
needed to do in terms of introduction, or am I supposed to
just go ahead?
CAROLYN PHILLIPS: Jeremy, we'll go ahead and let
you take it away. I know that you've got a lot to cover,
and then we'll actually have Joy cover the information that
she needs to cover. And then we'll do some question and
answer, and then we'll have Caroline do some updates on
ATIA.
So if you'll go ahead and lead us off, that would
be great. And, Jeremy, thanks again for joining us today.
JEREMY: Okay. And I'm seeing that Kathy in
San Antonio isn't able to hear me, so maybe there's a way
for Caroline -- if you're on -- to -- okay. She's working
with her now. All right.
Well, we generally get good turnout for Webinars or
presentations that we do on data collection, not because
people are generally too enthusiastic about data
collection -- some are -- but because, you know, there is
always anxiety surrounding, you know, what are we going to
be responsible for reporting to RSA?
Now, we did a session on data collection in Denver,
and that was between Deborah Buck who does the National
Information System for AT under one of our other grant
programs and myself where we gave a decent overview of what
was going on for data collection but didn't get into things
really deeply. Nor did we say, okay, you know, here's the
stuff for you to gear up to be ready to do. And that is
the purpose of this Webinar -- is, I'm going to lay out for
you pretty clearly, you know, "Okay, folks. This is what
you're going to be responsible for reporting to RSA next
year and the following year, which are the last two years
of your grant." So that's the bad news.
The good news is that compared to what we discussed
in Denver -- actually, what I'm going to discuss with you
all right now is going to be what, I assume, you will think
is greatly simplified compared to the last discussion we
had about data collection. The reasons for that are many.
But one of them has to do with OM -- office of management
and budget rules about data collections and the
complications that ensue from that. So we have decided to
take a different approach with data collection than we
first discussed with you in Denver. Luckily for you, like
I said, it is not a more complicated data-collection
approach. It actually is a simplified data-collection
approach. But let me begin by wrapping up the data that we
did last year. So if we can move to the next slide.
So right now you are just at the tail end of year
one for your grant. Now you're going to have to pay real
close attention because there's a whole bunch of dates that
I'm going to throw at you, and the dates start moving
around, depending on what year you're in. And I'll explain
why that happens because some of it is, in fact, a little
bit arbitrary. But you can rest assured that we will
inform you well ahead of time when things are going to be
due, what periods they cover, et cetera, et cetera.
So what you actually have under these grants are,
you have budget periods, and you have performance periods.
And unfortunately, the way these work is that they are not
necessarily going to be the same. The budget period is not
going to be the same as your performance period. Your
budget period is always going to be October 1st through
September 30th. So, you know, September 30 of this year
ends budget period one; October 1st of this year begins
budget period two and so on and so forth. Your performance
periods are different.
We have had, basically, a rule that came out in the
Department of Education that said we must provide our
continuation funding, which means, you know, when you get a
three-year grant, your next year's worth of funding is no
later than July 30th of every year. However, the rule is,
we can't provide continuation funding to you until you have
provided to us a report that shows you have made
substantial progress. Therefore, we have to have a report
from you in advance of the end of July 30th in order to
provide your second year's worth of funding. So that's why
the two periods don't necessarily match up.
Now, the difference between a budget and
performance periods are: The budget period is the amount
of time during which you have to spend your money. Your
performance period has to do with, basically, your
activities. You know, so your performance period is, we
did this stuff over this period of time. And it may very
well not line up with the expenditures of your money. It
is very confusing. It is very confusing to me, so I assume
it's probably confusing to others. But like I said, we
will send you updates about what data is due when in plenty
of time that this will be clear to everyone.
So your year one of your grant ends September 30th
for budget purposes, which means you need to have obligated
funds by September 30th, and then you need to liquidate
them by December 30th, which is 30 days later. Now,
because these are three-year discretionary grants, you are
allowed to carry funds over. So if you haven't spent all
of your year-one funds, that's okay. You can carry them
over into the second year. We've made arrangements for
that in the 524B, so no worries about that.
Separately from your budget period, again, is you
have a reporting period. Now, because you had to report to
us by July 15th, 2007, really your performance period ended
July 15th -- this last July 15th -- because you reported on
your activities up to that point. So that's your reporting
period.
So I want to thank everyone for submitting their
524Bs. We took care of things in a pretty reasonable
fashion, you know, and that means we had a lot easier end
of the fiscal year. So because of those -- because of the
early due date for the report that you provided, we need to
pay attention, then, to what's going to happen in the next
fiscal year in terms of your data collection because it
might get confusing. So if you can go to the next slide.
Okay. So at the bottom of this slide I have in
bold and underlined "Watch For the Shift" because you're
going to start seeing shifting dates. Depending on what
year we're in, the dates are going to shift, and we need --
because we need to sort of make things line up across three
years, even though we are being told that we have to have
all of our information in and taken care of before July
30th. So your year-two budget period begins October 1,
2007, goes through September 30th, 2008. That's pretty
straightforward because your last budget period did the
same thing.
However, here's what we're going to do with your
performance for the next year, and performance, again, is
the activities you're reporting to us on, you know, about
what progress you made. So we're going to say that since
you submitted your report July 15th, what we're going to
say is, okay. Your performance period for next year is
what you've done from July 15th, 2007 -- or I guess it
should by July 16th -- I guess I'm incorrect -- to May
31st, 2008. Now, why May 31st, 2008? Again, I have to
have all of my continuation grants processed by July 30th,
which means I need a report from you no later than July
1st, which means what I want is to have -- which means I
need to give you the month of June to prepare the report.
Therefore, if you stop collecting your data May 31st and
you start working on your report, then you have a month,
from June 1 to June 30, to turn your report in next year.
I have a month to review the reports, and then we can do
the continuations from there. So start thinking about, you
know, essentially where your last report left off, where
your last 524B left off. That's where your next 524B --
which is going to be due next July 1st -- is going to
begin.
However, the actual quantitative data you're going
to collect for us -- we're not going to make you backdate
your quantitative data to July. That would be unfair since
it's not until today that we're telling you, "Here's what
you have to collect for us." So your quantitative data
that I'm going to tell you about during this presentation,
you're going to start collecting that October 1st and
collect it through May 31st, 2008. Okay? So your
performance period for your activities will go July 16th to
May 31st. It will pick up where you last left off, but the
actual quantitative data you collect won't kick in until
October 1st, which means when you report to us next July 1,
you're going to only have to include your data from October
1 through May 31.
Now, some of you might ask the question, "Well,
what if we have the data prior to that?" Our preference is
to keep everyone doing the same amount of time because what
it does is, it skews the numbers. Those extra couple of
months might, you know, give one state an extra couple
hundred, and then people will look at the states and say,
"Well, gee, that state is outperforming that state," which
wouldn't be a fair statement because there's actually extra
months' worth of data.
So we'll be asking, as of October 1, please be
recording this quantitative data, and then your reporting
period will be October 1, 2007, through May 31st, 2008.
I'm going to pause there, assuming this is already
confusing enough, to see what questions people might have
up to this point. So I'm going to release the mike.
CAROLYN: If nobody has any questions at this
point, it must be as clear as it can be, and we can
probably move on, Jeremy.
JEREMY: Unfortunately, "clear as can be" is not a
particularly high standard for issues like this. So okay.
So I'm going to continue talking about your
reporting for year two. So now remember, last year you
gave us what I would call, you know, a qualitative report.
You looked at the activities you said you were going to do
in year one, and you described in a narrative way which
ones you did or did not meet. You're going to have to do
that again. And those qualitative reports on the
activities you did -- that starts where your last report
left off and goes through next June 1st for a report that
comes to us July 1st.
In addition to that, you're going to have to report
to us quantitative data on the actual output of your
program. Again, that quantitative data doesn't kick in a
notch until October 1st and goes through May 31st, so it's
on the same ending schedule as your qualitative data.
This is all you're going to have to report to us:
Number one, the number of individuals receiving devices.
Number two, the number of devices reused, and that will
have to be broken down by type of device. And later on
there will be a table that I will show you so that makes
more sense, and you will also have to report the cost
savings related to these devices. And again, that cost
savings also is broken down by type of device, and this is
all in a table. So it's those three data points -- the
three data points are broken out a little bit more than
that because of the whole device-type issue, but really,
that's pretty much it that we're talking about.
Now, the one thing I want to point out is, we're
talking about aggregate data. So we're not asking you to
report, you know, on each individual device. You're not
going to send us a report for -- if you had, you know, a
hundred devices reused, you're not sending us a hundred
different cost savings, a hundred different types, et
cetera. It's all taking everything at the end of the year
and reporting it all on the aggregate. So all we're going
to get is the total at the end of the year, not each
individual transaction. And again, there's a table that
you'll basically be filling out that reflects this. So can
you move to the next slide?
Okay. Now, right now before I even get into this
data, there are some folks who are grantees under the AT
Act that are saying, "Okay. I've seen this before. I'm
already collecting some of this under the AT Act. How am I
supposed to differentiate between what happened under the
AT Act and what happened under this grant?" That's an
awfully good question. We have the same question for you.
So the first thing we're going to say is, you're not going
to report the same data twice. You're not going to come
out at the end of the year -- and let's say you reused 500
devices total during the course of the year -- you're not
going to be putting 500 devices into the NISAT system and
500 devices into your 524B. You are going to have to
disaggregate the devices you reused based on which grant
they fell under. Okay?
But because everyone has taken a slightly different
approach to this -- to the way that they do their grant,
what we discussed was, there really is no one solution that
works for everyone in terms of disaggregating that data.
For instance, there are some states that said, "Well, with
our AT Act money we have three device reuse sites right
now, and with this other grant, we're going to increase
that to five." So they might be able to be very simple and
say, "Well, here's how we disaggregated the data. Anything
done at the three original centers will go into NISAT.
Anything done at the two additional centers will go into
the 524B."
Another state might not have that case. Another
state might have the same infrastructure in place but just
increased volume across at infrastructure. That state
might decide to do something about a proportion. They
might say, "Well, under the AT Act, we spent this amount of
dollars on reuse. With our reuse grant we spent this
amount of dollars on reuse, and the ratio of those
expenditures is, let's say, three to one. We spent three
times the amount of money under our reuse grant on reuse as
we do under our AT Act. So therefore, for every one device
that we report into NISAT, we're going to report three into
our 524B under the reuse program because that's sort of our
funding distribution."
There are a number of ways your state can approach
this disaggregation based on the model that works for you.
What we are asking is for you, as a state, to come up with
a disaggregation plan to tell us, "Hey, this is what works
for us, given the structure of our state." Send your
disaggregation plan to RSA. We're going to talk it over
with you. We'll talk it over with the Pass It On Center
just to make sure we all understand how it works. We can
work out any kinks in it, and then we will move forward.
Okay? So, you know, hopefully that's about as clear as
mud. We're giving you a lot of discretion on how you come
up with that disaggregation, which may make your life
easier. It may make your lives harder. But what we
assumed was just telling you, "Here's how you must
disaggregate the data" actually might be complicated for
all the different models that are out there working.
So I'm going to pause here, you know, to open up
for questions for those of you folks -- if you have
questions about this disaggregation concept. If you have
questions about the data points themselves, there's
actually slides that we're going to come to later that I'll
open up again to discuss the actual data-collection points.
And the question from Julia is, "When would the
plans be due from AT state programs?" That actually was
one of the questions I was hoping, at the end, when there's
going to be an opportunity for a more open discussion with
you, Joy, and Carolyn that some of the states who are going
to have to do this can say to us, "Hey, listen. It's
probably going to take us X amount of time to figure this
out," and we can be reasonable in our deadline.
Now, bearing in mind that October 1st is creeping
up on people, obviously, the sooner the better because it's
going to be helpful for you in getting your data structures
in place. But hopefully at the end we can sort of broach
that question of, "Hey, what sounds reasonable here? Given
the way your state works and how you're going to have to
think about this, how long do you think it will take to
generate this concept for us?" And I don't think we're
asking for anything particularly complicated in terms of
submission. I mean, you know, if you can just put together
a Word document, we're hoping it doesn't take more than a
page. You can just e-mail it to us. You know, we read it.
So it's not supposed to be a really complicated process.
Other questions before I move on?
TOM PATTERSON: Can I ask if folks are mulling over
all this information and that it makes sense, or are they
mulling over the information and are waiting to ask
questions?
JEREMY: One of the other things before we move on
I'll say is, some of you who are going to be disaggregating
data, if you're willing to share your methodology with
other people and give them ideas, that might be helpful
too.
Okay. I'm going to move on, so you can move on to
the next slide.
I ended the last thing about disaggregation saying,
we're trying to make this as uncomplicated as we can. Just
send us a Word document. That's going to be the overriding
principle of what we're trying to do here is, we're trying
to make it as uncomplicated as we can. Now, I said earlier
that one of the motivations for us not doing a huge, you
know, online data collection was that we have to follow
these rules from the Office of Management and Budget. And
also in the discussion what came out is the fact that we're
already at the end of the first year of the grant. The
next two years of the grant are going to fly by, so our
question was, what should these people be spending their
time on? Should they be spending their time on developing
really big data-collection infrastructures, or do we want
them spending their time getting the work of the grant
done? Well, we, obviously, decided to go for the latter
and to just keep things as simple as we could in the data
collection because, again, you know, the clock really is
ticking. Lucky for us, we'll have the Pass It On Center
around for another two years after that to continue work on
some of these national issues. But we know that a lot of
you are burning the candles on both ends to get things done
in the next three years. So that's why we're going to try
to keep this data collection simple.
So, for instance, one of the things you're going to
report in your next year's 524B is the number of
individuals receiving devices from your program. All
right? And the first thing I'd say is, this is as simple
as you think. It literally is, How many people did you
give devices to? The only complexity there is, we're just
saying, you know, it's not, you know, the individual and
his mother and his brother showed up, and that counts as
three people. It is just the individual who is receiving a
device that you count. That's where we're just going to
have a line that you fill in that says, you know, "How many
individuals received devices?" It could be 20. It could
be 500. Whatever that number is, it's how many people got
devices from your program. Hopefully, that's pretty
straightforward. Next slide, please.
Now, after asking you about how many people
received devices, we're going to want information about the
number of devices reused. Now, just because you reused
devices to 400 people, doesn't mean it has to be 400
devices. It couldn't be less than 400, but it certainly
could be more because we understand that sometimes people
receive two and three devices. They might receive two and
three devices, you know, at the same time. They might
receive two and three devices across the course of a year.
What we will have to discuss further is, let's say
somebody shows up in April and is asking for a wheelchair,
and then they show up in June, and they're asking for, you
know, some sort of cane or a walker or something like that.
You know, does that person count as two people? Does it
count as one person? It probably depends, really, on how
sophisticated your record-keeping system is and whether or
not you can keep track of, you know, was it the same person
that -- was it one single person that we gave two devices
to, you know, over time, et cetera? I think that's another
topic we can bring up at the end when Carolyn and Joy will
be talking about some of the data collection and tracking
systems that are already out there and whether or not they
have the ability to track things along those finite of
lines.
But suffice it to say, the number of devices
doesn't have to equal the number of people. You can have
more devices than people. However, we are going to ask
that they are broken down by the type of device. So if you
say you have 500 devices, that 500 is going to go, you
know, 10 of this kind of device, 10 of that kind of device,
5 of this kind of device, et cetera. And we have a
prescribed list to put them in.
The one thing that is, though, that amongst those
500 devices, if you say you recycled 500 devices, you can't
have 510 in different categories. A device goes only into
a single category. So even if a device could be used for
many things, you've got to choose the one that you want to
put it into. And there will be a table that I will show
you later that has information about this. Next slide,
please.
So here are the categories of devices. There are
devices for vision, devices for hearing, speech
communication, learning cognition and developmental,
mobility seating and positioning, daily living,
environmental adaptation, vehicle modification and
transportation, computers and related, recreation, sports
and leisure, and other. There could be some things that
are completely out there that are not categorical. So the
idea is, you've recycled 50 devices over the course of the
data-collection period. Each of those 50 devices has to be
categorized in one of these categories. You can't
categorize it in two categories and double count it. You
just have to figure out, what's the most sensible place for
this device to go? Which is the most sensible category for
this device to go in? Can you go to the next slide?
And when it's not clear how to classify a device,
what you do is, think about the functional need that it's
serving or the assisting need that it's serving and put it
in that category. I think most people would argue that
while a wheelchair can be used for daily living, it's
probably a mobility device. So some of those are pretty
clear.
There are other devices that are not so clear. For
instance, is a telephone always a communication device?
Your program might decide that that's where you want to
classify telephones. What we are saying is, the other
choice there would be, you could look at the telephone and
figure out what about that telephone makes it assistive
technology and categorize it in that category. If it is a
telephone with large buttons, the reason the person wants a
telephone with large buttons is so that they can see the
buttons. Well, that actually might be assistive technology
for vision, so that telephone might, for instance, go into
vision. Or the person might want the telephone for --
because it has amplification with it. So you might say,
well, because this telephone has amplification, it actually
is addressing a hearing need. Therefore, I'm going to put
this telephone in the hearing category. So there is no
hard-and-fast rule of "this device always equals this." We
will be sending you, however, a list of definitions of each
of those device categories I listed that will include
decision rules about, well, here's how you think about the
devices that should go in this category as well as examples
of each device type.
So it is quite clear that from one state to
another, you know, the same device might be put in over
here, and in another case, it's going to be put in a
different category. From person to person the same device
might be put in a different category. The big thing to
emphasize here is, just be logical about your choices and
make sure that you decide, you know -- you decide where the
device goes, and it goes there, and it doesn't go into two
categories.
Let me pause here to see if there are any questions
about the device typology or how to put devices into
categories.
JOY KNISKERN: Jeremy, this is Joy. I'm wondering,
when will we be able to get the definitions, decision
rules, and examples of the device type to everybody? Or do
you want --
JEREMY: Will tomorrow work?
JOY: I think that's great.
JEREMY: Other questions?
Okay. Moving on to the next slide, then. Okay.
Now, so you've got how many people received devices.
You've got how many devices were reused, and those devices
were broken down by category. Those very same devices
you're also going to have to calculate the cost savings
related. Now, we know that a lot of you have different
methodologies for cost -- for calculating cost savings, and
we've got some folks out there doing return on investments,
et cetera. Again, we're taking the keep-it-simple
approach. We're saying, here's how you calculate cost
savings. Device A goes out the door. You figure out how
much that device would have cost new, how much you charged
the person for it, subtract, and that's the cost savings.
So if the new thing would have cost $500 and it cost them
$10 to get it from you, well then the cost savings was
$490. If you didn't charge them anything, then the cost
savings was $500 because the cost that you charged was
zero.
Now, somebody might bring in a device that really
isn't available anymore. So you're not able to find the
exact cost of it in a catalog or online, but there probably
is a similar device out there, so you certainly can
estimate the current purchase price of that device based on
a similar device that exists on the market still. So it's
really that easy.
Now, the folks who did presentations in Denver did
a great job telling us, you know what? Cost savings
definitely is not that easy. But again, for our purposes
-- because there's limited time left in the grant and
keeping consistent with the way we're calculating it into
data systems -- this is the approach we want to take.
So if you can advance to the next slide . . .
So this is how all of this comes together.
Essentially, you're going to have to fill out the table
that you're looking at. There's one column that lists all
the types of devices, one column that lists the numbers of
devices reused, one column that lists savings to consumers.
Again, this is aggregate so what you're going to do is,
you're going to have -- you're probably going to want some
record on each of the mobility devices you recycled. You
recycled 20 wheelchairs in the past year, and for each of
those 20 wheelchairs you know how much was saved. So what
you're going to do is, you're going to put 20 in the
"number of devices reused" column for mobility, and then
for those 20 devices you will, you know, add up the cost
savings and put the total cost savings in the "savings to
consumers." That's it. That's the whole breakdown you
have to do for the devices. So really what that means is,
you have to know what kind of devices are going in and out
the door, and you have to know the cost savings for each
one of them so you can add them all up at the end of the
year and put them in this table.
Basically, what we're looking at is your 524B. I
haven't figured out where yet, and I haven't figured out if
we're going to be able to put it up online like we did last
year, but somewhere in the 524B, essentially, you're going
to be filling out this table. There will be one line that
says, you know, how many people received devices, and you
put in the number of people, and then you fill out this
table. And that's, basically, going to be the quantitative
data you report in your 524B. And again, that is for next
year. That is the data that's starting this October 1st
through next May 31st that's going to be the data you plug
into this table and that you put in the line where we ask
you, "How many people received devices?"
So questions up to this point?
(No audio captured)
. . . installment at the end of the
day is going to end up costing them $70, and they're paying
for that in seven payments of $10, I would say you just
call it $70 as the total. Where it gets complicated is if,
you know, they've paid 40 of the $70 during this
performance period and they finish up the other 30 in the
next performance period -- so in one year they paid 40, and
one year they paid 30 -- I would personally advocate you
just shift the whole kit and caboodle to one year or the
other. You either just say, "Well, over time it's going to
be $70, and we're going to claim it all this year," or you
say, "Well, we're not going to claim it this year. Let's
move them over to next year."
Does that make sense, or do we have the wrong
understanding about installment plans? Other questions?
JOY: I think Dorothy was trying to ask a question.
Dorothy, I don't know if you have a mike. You can type in
the little space below the emoticons.
JEREMY: Okay. Well, we'll move on to the next
slide, then. This time around, essentially, you're going
to have to fill out that table as well as answer any
questions about how many people will receive devices. Now,
that's going to be reported in addition to the types of
data you reported last year which was, "Well, we said in
year one we were going to do this, and this is what we've
done." Next time around you're going to say, "Well, we
said in year two we were going to do this, and this is what
we've done so far." So I really would recommend that you
save your work from last year because some of it you're
going to be building on things you did from last time
around and reiterating or saying, "Well, you know, last
year we got this far; this year we got that far." So just
look at it like this: It's, essentially, doing what you
did this last time around, adding the quantitative data.
If your program reaches the end of this reporting
period -- again, May 31st, 2008 -- and you don't have
quantitative data because your grant was given to you to
start a new program that is not up and running yet, then
all you will have to report is the qualitative data, and
that's fine. We've actually spoken to states individually
who have said they don't feel they'll be in that place yet,
so everyone will do a 524B, and they'll look relatively the
same, except that for those states who have quantitative
data, you're going to be responding to that quantitative
data.
Now, we will hold, again, next year sort of a
refresher course on filling out a 524B. We'll go over all
of this again. But it's good for you to have it now so you
can be thinking about, "Okay. How am I going to collect
the number of people? How am I going to collect the cost
savings," et cetera, so that when it comes time to sit down
and fill out that table, you'll be ready to do so. And at
the end of the conversation, Joy and Carolyn will also be
discussing what's out there in terms of aids to help with
that. Next slide, please.
Okay. So like I said before, we're going to ask
you to have your 524Bs to us by June 30th because I need to
have everything finished up by July 30th, which means that
if you end your data collection -- that is, both
qualitative and quantitative data collection -- if you end
it on May 31st, it gives you one month to write and file
the 524B.
Now, here's where, again, the dates start getting
screwy. So your year-two quantitative data -- it will
start October 1st, 2007, to May 31st -- I have that wrong.
I'm sorry -- October 1st, 2007, to May 31st, 2008. So if
you're writing this down, scratch that out because it
should be May 31st, 2008. Then your year-three data is
actually going to go June 1st, 2008, through September
30th, 2009. But wait, Jeremy, that's very confusing.
Didn't you just say that you had to have all these reports
in by June of every year in order to give us our
continuation grants? That is true. However, year three is
not a continuation of your grant. That is the last year of
your grant. So your grant, then, actually does end. So
it's just this year two, which is kind of funky in terms of
the data collection. What you have happening is that with
your grant, we're always going to sort of be on this
starting-around-June-1 cycle, but the ending date is going
to vary based on what part of the grant you are in. So
you're just going to have to be aware and watch for that
shift. But again, each year we will tell you, "Okay. Your
data collection for this year is going to come from this
point to this point. Your 524B is going to be due on this
date, and your 524B needs to cover the following period."
So don't beat yourselves up trying to write this down and
figure this all out. You will receive warnings that say,
you know, "Here's all the stuff you're responsible for and
the dates that it covers."
So my recommendation is, just start, you know,
having the data collection happen on an ongoing basis so
that you can, essentially, parse it out according to the
correct calendar.
Next slide, please.
So like I had just finished talking about
year-three data -- so your year-three data then begins June
1, 2008, through September 30th, 2009, because a final
report on your grant is due December 30th, 2009. And
those, again, are tied back to your budget periods. So
your final report will actually capture the largest span of
data that you have, again both quantitative and
qualitative. The reason I decided to do it this way is,
the other choice was to ask you to provide us with two
reports in year three. We can have an annual progress
report in year three followed by a final progress report
three months later. That didn't make sense to me. I
figured, just do a final progress report that encompasses
the entire period, as opposed to breaking it up for you.
However, you need money, and so you are asking for a longer
period of time on your grant because you have not
accomplished your activities. We can grant you no-cost
extensions, but the same data collection has to continue
because what that essentially does is that pushes your
performance report out another 90 days. So if your grant,
in theory, is supposed to end the 30th and you say you know
what? We actually need six more months on this grant,
we'll give you six more months most likely. However, that
six more months means your final report isn't due for
another nine months, and you're going to have to keep
collecting the data during that entire period of time. I'm
not saying that as a way to deter people from asking for
the no-cost extension, but what I'm trying to say is that
once you start collecting data, you're going to need to
keep collecting it because it's going to need to be
included in a report at some point. Okay?
Are there any questions about these -- about any of
those issues? Okay.
So what I think is going to be wise for us to do is
to send people a paper copy of some of the things that we
went over in this Webinar -- an electronic copy that you
can print onto paper of the table so you have in mind "I'm
going to have to fill out this table." I can send you some
sort of a calendar that shows "Here are all the budget
periods and the performance periods" if you want to keep
track over time. But again, bear in mind that we will send
you notification well in advance so you understand how
everything lines up. Okay?
So can you advance the slide, please?
So the last thing is, I know that in -- I know that
in Denver we had a pretty long discussion and presentation
about outcomes and outcome measures. What we had decided
to do is, RSA is not going to collect outcome measures from
you. Again, one of the reasons is, we wanted to take the
simple approach, and we know that the outcome measures
require follow-up, which requires extra time. And time
right now is something we're not going to have over the
next two years. It will be very difficult to have all the
data that we want in a real formal way in such a short
period of time from the grantees. All we're going to be
asking you for is those raw numbers. We're not going to be
asking you for those outcome measures that we had discussed
in Denver. I'm sure that nobody is particularly upset by
that at this point. You can certainly let us know if
you're upset by that, but we figured that that actually
would come to people -- that this modification from what
was presented in Denver would actually be a relief to
people, as opposed to something that would cause them
anxiety. So, you know, the basic breakdown is this: You
have the question that you'll have to answer on how many
people received devices, and then you'll have the table
that you fill in about the devices that were reused. And
all of that will be in addition to the 524B that you --
something similar to the 524B that you turned in this time
around. I don't know precisely where the table or the
question about the number of people served will end up in
the 524B, but you will receive some sort of a format or
training on, "Here's how to fill out your 524B" closer to
the time of it happening.
So that is really pretty much it for the
presentation that I have. We can then move on to the next
part of the presentation. We'll pause for some questions
if people have questions for me, and then Joy or Carolyn
can take it over from there. Thank you very much for your
time.
CAROLYN: Thank you so much, Jeremy. You always do
such a good job making information that could be pretty
darn dry not so dry. So thank you. We really appreciate
that.
And if y'all do have questions, feel free to go
ahead and type them in or raise your hand. I'm going to
release this in just a second. And then, we're going to
move forward with the rest of the presentation.
And, Laurie, that's great that you enjoyed that
too. So any questions, let us know.
JOY: Okay. I still want to pause a little bit
before we go into the next part of the presentation. And
are there any other questions that folks have at this
point? This is Joy.
Okay. With that, I'm going to go ahead and start,
and as you heard Jeremy say, RSA is not asking for any kind
of outcome measures, performance measures, outcome data,
and so on, but we also remember very clearly from talking
with various of you that you are very interested in looking
at some kinds of outcome data and performance measures that
we could gather from you. So we really need your help, and
so that's what this section of the presentation is about.
Let's move on to the next slide.
So RSA is going to be collecting both quantitative
and also qualitative measures on your 524B annual reports,
as Jeremy mentioned, but the numbers and some of your
qualitative data -- they only tell part of what we might
call the AT Reuse Story. And that is, what are we all
about? What's the value of what we are really doing? So
we would like to ask for your participation in gathering
some additional information that really looks at, why would
a person come to your AT reuse program? What do they hope
to achieve with a reuse device? And how satisfied were
they with your services? And I know that probably many of
you are already collecting some of this data if you're in
AT state programs. Some of the data that we'll be going
over you already have to collect for the AT state program,
and so we're hoping that what we're presenting and
requesting for people to do on a voluntary basis would not
present any kind of an undue burden. And we believe that
this information is at least as important as the actual
numbers of the people that you're serving.
So let's move on to the next slide.
And these voluntary performance measures that I'm
going to go over with you, really what it will accomplish
for us -- it gives us the paint or the data to the Pass It
On Center that we can use to create a picture of the AT
reuse story, and really we might even say AT reuse stories
because there are different kinds of programs that you
operate, and all of them have tremendous value to the
people that you're serving in your communities. But we've
got to be able to tell that story. And so what we want to
go for is some of the value-added information that really
shows how the extra investment of RSA grant dollars really
mean to people in the community and society at large.
Let's go on to the next slide.
And with the information that I'll be reviewing
with you in a minute, we hope with that and with other
information that we will gather from your best practices
and so on, to be able to paint a picture, tell people what
we are doing, how you're doing it, why it's of critical
value to all the individuals that you're working with on a
day-to-day basis, and really to society at large. What
you're doing at your respective state levels and in your
communities is something that we -- that is so important to
be able to communicate to people, and we're hoping that
with what we do, it's information that you, too, in turn,
can use for your sustainability plans and so on. Let's
move on to the next slide.
And as I said before, and as Jeremy said, RSA is
only requiring the information that he covered. Anything
that we're asking from you is totally voluntary, and at the
end of the conversation, we want to open it up to some
discussion among you, a little bit more about what you're
currently collecting and whether or not what we're
proposing is feasible for you, if there are other kinds of
information that you can share a little bit about what that
might be so we can begin to get a picture as to what this
would look like. What we would do at the end of the second
year is -- once we have this information from those of you
who can volunteer that and also with information from RSA
that you share -- is putting that together into a report
that's not going to be something that sits on people's
shelves, by all means, but something that we can share with
policy makers, with manufacturers of assistive technology,
and with anybody else who's interested in future planning,
and also for you and your states in your respective
sustainability efforts. And then, again, we would see
ourselves producing another such report at the end of the
third year and collective report that sort of sums it all
up together -- so certainly two reports, possibly as many
as three. Let's go on to the next slide.
What are we talking about when we're talking about
these performance measures? And just as Jeremy has adapted
the quantitative information that would be used in your
524B from the NISAT tool itself, we will also be doing the
same thing or at least we're proposing to do the same
thing -- use what NISAT has already developed for this part
of the voluntary data requests.
So let's move on to this document next. And we're
breaking this -- what you're going to see here is totally
invisible. You can see, though, that what we're asking
from you -- if you can volunteer to complete this on a
person-by-person basis -- that this would be a one-page
form altogether, and what we're going to do next is look at
each component of that form so you can really see what
we're talking about. So those of you who are AT programs,
all of this will be very familiar, I think. What we have
done is made a few tiny changes in this so that it sort of
collapses both the acquisition part of NISAT on the
performance measures as well as the customer satisfaction
piece as well. It's all in one piece, and so the first --
very top part of the form is information that would be
completed by you or your staff where you put a grantee name
-- your grantee name, and then actually below, there's
supposed to be three little check boxes here -- one in
front of "device exchange," one in front of "device reuse,"
and one in front of "open-ended loan programs."
And just to clarify the latter, what open-ended
loan programs mean are those programs that are reutilizing
devices. But when you give it to a person for whatever
reason that is specific to your program, it's an open-ended
loan. You don't expect to ever go and request the
equipment again. You hope that the person may give it back
to you when they're finished with it, but you do consider
it an open-ended loan, but it is considered AT reuse.
And then the date that the service delivery was
completed, the date that the person received the device,
and then also the date that the form was received -- and
later on I'm going to go through some tips that we found
very useful when we're trying to collect this data that
makes it very, very simple. At least it has for us in
Georgia, and we're hoping, you know, that some of you are
already doing this or that you will find that it's pretty
straightforward. All right. Let's go on to the next
slide.
All right. The next section of the form -- and,
again, all of this is on one page -- is that the person in
the next several -- there are four categories that follow.
This is the first one. In each of these sections of the
survey, it's something that the person or their
representative would complete, and so the first thing that
a person would select when they receive the AT reutilized
device is the type of benefit this device would provide to
them. In getting this device, is this going to help them
participate in an educational-type program -- elementary
school, preschool, high school, postsecondary school,
continuing education, any form of education? Only one of
these would be checked, and we do realize there are some
types of devices where a person may use it in several
different categories, but we want to force that check.
What is the main benefit that this device will provide to
that person in receiving it?
The next category is community living, and it's
defined there as carrying out daily activities,
participating in community activities, using community
services, or living independently.
The next category is employment. Is this device
primarily going to benefit a person in finding or keeping a
job, getting a better job, participating in an
employment-training program, vocational-rehabilitation
program, or another program related to employment? Now,
you may have, for example, a person who is getting a
wheelchair from you, and for whatever reason, they've come
to your program. Other resources were not available to
them, or they chose not to select those other resources.
And we can see that probably if the person is also going to
seek employment and they're going to be involved in
education and they're obviously going to be using their
wheelchair in community-living activities, which one would
that person select? It's really their choice as to where
they see that primary benefit being -- the primary purpose.
Okay. Let's move on to the next slide.
In the second category, the person is asked to
choose, you know -- they're asked to indicate, by only one
answer, why did they choose to obtain this device from your
program? So many people who come to the AT reuse program,
I know they tell us that that they've really looked at so
many different other resources, and for whatever reason
they can't find a device elsewhere, so they're coming to
this program. And so in that case, that would be the box
that they would probably select. Other people may select
that they're not eligible, don't qualify for other
programs, or the AT is not covered by other funding
sources. And that's where they would select that
particular choice. And in the third category, the AT would
be available to that person through other programs, but for
whatever reason, the person has decided that they want to
come to you. The system was too complex. The wait time
was too long. For whatever reason, they might check that
one or none of the above, and they're not asked to give any
other comments about that.
I was reading some information recently about the
numbers and the increasing numbers of uninsured Americans
and how, you know, this population, as we all know -- if
they need assistive technology, oftentimes those are people
who are really caught in the middle, and we don't have
anything that would clarify that. But you know there may
be other kinds of information that you want to add to your
data collection that would help you understand who your
customers are and why they're coming to you. Let's move on
to the next one.
Okay. "Which of the following best reflects your
level of satisfaction with the services you received from
the program?" And the person should only check one:
"highly satisfied, satisfied, somewhat satisfied, or not
satisfied at all." And this satisfaction data in the NISAT
tools, for those of you who are AT state programs, is a
totally separate form. And for our purposes, we've put
this all together into one piece. Let's move into -- and
why do we ask this? I think that most of you some way or
another -- you're already asking this to the customers who
are receiving it. And if you're not, you can certainly
feel sure that you will gain a great deal of information by
just asking this one question.
But let's go on to the fourth one that we've added
here. Let's go on to the next slide.
"Are there ways that we can improve our services?"
This is your opportunity to ask your customers, what can
you do, as a program, to improve your services? And
actually, what we need to include on our form is, this is
optional for us to receive. It certainly would be helpful
for us to know because I do believe -- we believe so
strongly -- and the voice of people at the grassroots level
that we're serving -- and I know all of you are in the same
place -- we learn so many things and so many good tips from
our customers that we literally use to improve our
services. So we'd love to receive that information from
you, assuming that you're going to volunteer to complete
this information and send it in anyway. But we'd
especially like to point out that if for any reason you
don't feel that you want to share this information and just
use it for your own program purposes, that's fine with us
as well. We don't have an issue with that. Let's go on to
the next slide.
Now, one of the things that Jeremy mentioned is
that we realize that many of you may already be collecting
this and have a system to collect this kind of information
because you're in AT state programs. On the other hand, we
also know that some of you don't have this -- any kind of
setup or maybe it's a different setup. And we, in Georgia
and, I think, Kansas has already volunteered in the past --
have data-collection systems that we've set up. We would
be more than happy to work with our data specialist to pull
out those sections of our data-entry format for your
purposes. Or if you want to look at the whole nine yards,
you can do that as well.
And, Carolyn, can we get -- at least our system --
is there a way that they can access that and take a look at
it if they're interested?
CAROLYN: Yes, we sure can make that open to
everybody. We've got a little demo version up on the Tools
For Life Web site, and I'll send the address out for
everybody so that you can explore that for yourself.
JOY: And, Sara, if your offer is still on the
table, certainly jump right in.
And if any others of you have a system that
includes this information, please feel free to make
comments to that effect as well.
Okay, Tom. Let's move on to the next slide. Okay.
I mentioned that we wanted to cover some of the lessons
learned about the consumer survey and ways to collect this
information simply. And what we do with many of our
programs, our subcontractors will use a point-of-contact
survey so that when the person picks up the information --
you remember back on the form it has a place where you can
list the date that the person received the device, and then
there's a second date and that reflects the date that the
form is actually being completed -- that particular
information and in many cases can be the very same date --
the date that they pick up the device, the date that they
complete the form. And one of the things that we've used
in the past is just having a computer set up with the
survey there so that if the person has the capability of
using a computer and they're willing to do it, they can
complete it right there on-site. If somebody needs
assistance, we can help them, using the computer directly.
We can do it for them. If you're using printed forms, then
that can be done on-site as well. And we've done that in
the past.
And literally, I think, at ReBoot we had a
part-time person who was able to be employed because we're
putting out so many computers, and we really needed
assistance in gathering this information. So we were able
to create a part-time job for a person with a disability
who's just done an excellent job with that. So there are a
lot of different ways to do this. And we'd like to be able
to keep it as simple as possible for those of you who would
be willing to volunteer. Let's move on to the next slide.
Oh, I see that Sara's made a comment that Kansas
has a clone that's available, if people are willing to look
at it, and so you can see Sara's e-mail address. We'll
send that out again in our e-mail, and we'll certainly let
you take a look at that.
Now, before we talk about any other outcome
measures, I just wanted to get a sense from people who have
listened to this part of the session as to, number one,
what are you -- are you collecting any of this already?
And is this something that you think you could do? Because
we feel like this kind of information is going to be
awfully important to us.
Before you respond to that, we're also very aware
that many of you, as Jeremy had mentioned, are already
collecting some incredible outcome measures, and that kind
of information would also be very useful to share with us.
If we can collect this from you, we're thinking that the
time to do it is when your other reports are due. That
just seems like a logical sequence.
And so with that, what I'd like to do is just open
the floor for comments and questions and anybody who
believes that they can participate with us, we'd love to
hear from you. Thank you.
TOM: And Joy -- this is Tom Patterson with Pass It
On Center -- I also wanted to mention that the Pass It On
Center Web site is looking for your wonderful success
stories or even your struggles as you work to develop your
programs. So you don't necessarily need to wait and share
your stories. If something great happens, please let us
know. And I'm going to put up my e-mail address, and you
can send them to me, and we'll get them up on our Web site.
Thanks.
JOY: And remember, with any kind of stories that
you have that you do want to share, we all have to be
cognizant of HIPAA and releases and any information like
that. But a success could be something like, obviously,
procuring additional space for, you know, what you're doing
or adding on new partners or all kinds of things.
Now, I see that Jeremy has made a comment here.
Let's take a look at what he's saying. Okay. I like your
comment, Jeremy. That's excellent. Yes, community
participation by Paraquad or decreased hospitalization by
FREE in Virginia -- absolutely. And if any of you are
collecting information such as reducing the incidences of
falls by helping, for instance, seniors get grab bars in
their bathrooms, things like that, we've heard a lot from
other people about that.
Let's see. And Carrie Morgan has made a great
comment and Carla Walker. Okay. Good. Good. Wonderful.
Let me also ask, then, in terms of what we've presented
here, if we supply these -- this format to you as a
one-page type of form in an electronic type of format, can
you -- how many of you think you'd be able to use that as
well as what you're already collecting or if you're not
collecting any of this, would you be able to do it? Is
this something that you think would be possible for you?
Thank you, Jane. Thank you, Kansas. All right, Robin.
Right on. Thank you. Paraquad. Okay. Good.
Is there anybody who thinks that they need to look
at the electronic database that we have? Dorothy, you're
-- okay. Great. Yes. Okay. Good. Thank you, Kristen.
Wonderful. Wonderful. Great. Okay.
And I think most of the states, the AT reuse
grantees are on today. There may be a few people who were
not able to join us today, and we'll follow up with them
individually. Okay. Great. Okay.
Paul, you want to look -- great. We'll get the
databases to you. Good. All right. Well, it looks like
we've got pretty good buy-in here, and I can't tell you how
good that makes us feel.
And for anybody who's collecting any other kind of
outcome data we would love to be able to hear from you.
More specifically, we could do, perhaps, even another
Webinar just to talk about what kind of outcome measures
some of you are already gathering that maybe not everybody
else is doing and just see where that takes us. I think
that would be a very interesting discussion.
CAROLYN: And I see, Paul and Jane, that you said
you would like to see the databases, and Sara actually
offered hers. She said if you would like to see that, you
can e-mail her directly at ssack@ku.edu. And thank you,
Sara. We really appreciate you always being so willing to
share. As I said, I will definitely send out the e-mail --
an e-mail to y'all so that you can see our database. There
will be a link attached. So that's no problem.
And thanks again everybody for being so willing to
do this. We appreciate it, and we appreciate the buy-in,
and we also wanted to keep it simple, so I'm glad that
y'all recognize that too. Very good.
And, Joy and Jeremy, excellent job. We really
appreciate y'all sharing this information with us, and it
looks like Joy has something else that she would like to
add, and then we will turn it back over to Caroline Van
Howe to talk a little bit more about ATIA -- the upcoming
ATIA conference, and then we'll wrap up. So Joy?
JOY: Yes, I just wanted to mention to those states
who are interested in looking at the databases, that's
fine. We'll certainly, you know -- you can certainly
follow up with Sara, as Carolyn mentioned, and we'll give
you a link where you can get to our database. Wanted to
mention that when you look at that, you're going to see a
lot more information than just the piece that, for
instance, Jeremy presented or I presented. It would be a
lot more detail than what you may want to collect, but take
a look at that because the whole nine yards would be
available to you.
On the other hand, if you want for our database
person to sort of separate out so that all you have on the
voluntary basis is what we've presented, that's fine. Not
a problem.
CAROLYN: Does anybody have any other questions or
comments that they would like to share with us about what
Jeremy or Joy had before Caroline talks to us about ATIA?
Okay. Caroline, do you mind talking to us? I see
that you're posting information about the dates and also
information about the Web site, so I'll pass it over to you
for just a few more minutes.
CAROLINE VAN HOWE: Yes, I just wanted to let
everybody know -- I think many of you know this, but I'll
just repeat the information for any newcomers who are on
board or on the team. It's that our ATIA 2008 which is
held in Orlando, Florida, in January -- the last couple of
the days of January and the first couple of days of
February, there will be a reuse mini strand which is
several presentations by many of you on the Webinar today.
And thanks, in particular, to Sara Sack and also Beth Mineo
who have been managing that strand for the Pass It On
Center, so we have five or six presentations on reuse.
We're featuring them as one of our four mini strands at
this year's conference. The other mini strands, just to
let you know -- we have a focus on autism, on NIMAS, and
also on the AT Act programs and alternative financing
programs as well. What I would encourage you to do is go
on -- we also have a special discount registration for all
of the Pass It On Center grantees in the program. So that
is a special discount that Carolyn, Joy, and Tom will be
sending you more details via e-mail a little bit later.
We'll be open for registration as of September the 19th. I
also wanted to let you know we're planning a very big focus
on reuse at this year's conference. I want to make sure
you're all aware of that as part of the overall partnership
ATIA has with the Pass It On Center.
If you have any questions or if Sara and/or Beth
wanted to add anything, I'd also be happy to hear from them
as well.
CAROLYN: Caroline, thank you so much, and we
really do appreciate the collaboration with ATIA, and we're
very, very excited about the reuse mini strand.
And once again, thanks Sara Sack and Beth for
pulling that together for us. We really appreciate it. I
think it is going to be very exciting. We're hearing some
really positive things about that.
I also wanted to let folks know that we at the Pass
It On Center and Jeremy from RSA are going to be at the
MedTrade Conference October 2nd through the 4th in Orlando,
Florida. And several folks are going to be going down
there with us to do a panel discussion, and we're excited
about that. We're also going to do some focus groups down
there, and we'll keep you posted about how that progresses.
And it looks like Sara just posted that the
sessions do look really strong. I agree with you, Sara. I
hope to see everyone there also.
Caroline, I know that some folks actually got
information that they are going to be -- that they are
alternates. Can you explain that a little bit more to us,
just what that means because we've had a couple questions
about what that really means?
CAROLINE: Yes, I'd be happy to. What we've done
is, we have about 450 sessions submitted for the ATIA
Conference of which we were able to schedule approximately
275, so we have a number of concurrent sessions. So we
scheduled -- we have strand managers in every one of the
strands who are leaders in their field, and they look at
all of the submitted sessions in their area of expertise,
and they decide their top-ranking ones, and those are
selected, and those are scheduled. But we do have a number
of other sessions of interest who we're not able to
schedule at this time. So we've asked them to be alternate
sessions as we find that as we get close to conference,
that for a number of different reasons, some of the
scheduled speakers need to decline attending the conference
for personal and/or professional reasons. And that's when
we go to the alternate speakers and say, "We do have a
session spot that's freed up. Would you be able to
participate as a speaker?" although we were not able to
schedule them at the scheduling time. So that's the
process by which we determine the alternate speakers, and
we do find that we use approximately between 10 and 20
percent of our alternate speakers. We do ask them to
present because, like I said, for various reasons, the
scheduled speakers are not able to make the conference
themselves.
CAROLYN: Okay. Thank you so much for explaining
that. We really appreciate you giving us more detail.
Thank you very much.
Jeremy and Joy, excellent job. We really
appreciate all your work in pulling this Webinar together.
We actually -- just so y'all know -- when we turned in the
Pass It On annual report to RSA, we did put in a lot of
energy and thought into the next Webinars and also kind of
where are we headed for the next year. And so we did want
to discuss some of that with you during our next Webinar,
and so -- and a lot of that actually is based on the
technical assistance that you requested from us in Denver.
We definitely have listened to you, and we are definitely
going ahead and planning Webinars. We've contacted several
of you to see if you can present for us during some of
these, and we also are expecting some of the Pass It On
task force study groups to start reporting out some of the
information that they've been working on soon so that we
can do some Webinars around the information that they're
discovering for us, which is good, including liability and
disaster response and things like that.
So we're excited about the upcoming schedule of
Webinars. If you know of other folks within your centers
that you want to invite to be a part of this, please know
that the doors are definitely open for folks that are the
grantees that want to be a part of this or any of the task
force members -- no doubt about that. We have had some
requests from other folks that would like to start joining
the Webinars, and we're definitely going to be opening some
of these up. We've got that in our plan for next year. So
we'll be opening that up and probably have quarterly
Webinars that would kind of look at more general issues
when it comes to AT reuse and how -- passing some of that
information on to folks that are out there that are doing
reutilization. So we did want to let you know about that
plan also.
So do you have any questions for us before we
close? I've got -- I guess it's about 3:22, and we said we
were going to go to 3:30. So any other questions that you
have for us at this point?
JOY: Carolyn, I just wanted to remind everybody,
too, that we will be coming out with sort of a calendar for
the next six months of these audio conferences that Carolyn
is talking about. And on the 25th please hold your
calendars 2:00 to 3:30 again. We're still shooting for, I
think, the last Tuesday of every month, although I know
this summer we did have to do some switching around. But
we will come out with a calendar of speakers, and if we
don't have something filled in, it will be TBA, so be
looking for that very shortly.
CAROLYN: Yes, that's great. Looking forward to
having the calendar, and we'll definitely have that
information up on our Web site. So thank you, Joy.
Any other questions or comments from y'all? Okay.
Well, thank you so much, everyone, for participating in
this. We hope that everything is going well your way and
definitely want to let you know, as always, that you can
contact us. You can e-mail us, call us, what have you. We
have really enjoyed working with y'all and appreciate you
working with us as we continue to grow in our knowledge and
our skills and also grow the AT reuse community. So thank
you so much, and y'all take care.
Thank you also, Caroline, for your help. We really
appreciate it, as always.